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Devil's claw dried or liquid

Discussion in 'Veterinary,Injuries and Therapies' started by Cortrasna, Jan 12, 2018.

  1. Cortrasna

    Cortrasna Grumpy old nag

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    I have little Bertie donk on bute this past week - his joints are beginning to trouble him in particular on one back leg (vet saw him last autumn and we came to the conclusion he is just ageing rather rapidly now and feeling his joints and just to give him half a bute when he looks uncomfortable :( )

    Anyway....this winter he is struggling a bit but has improved hugely this week with half a bute a day but I don't want to keep him on this long term as he isn't particularly ancient (19) and I am concerned for his liver etc long term. I had great success with the liquid Devil's claw when Solly was struggling so want to get Bertie on it too - but it does seem to be very expensive now for a bottle of the stuff that really seems to give them a relatively low dose of actual devil's claw - has anyone tried feeding the chopped up dried root instead - is it palatable for them and do you think it is, or would be more effective?
     
  2. Trewsers

    Trewsers Well-Known Member

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    I have been using the Naff liquid devil claw and have to say it has been fabulous, but it has gone up in price, it's £18 now for a litre bottle and between two old biddies doesn't last long:oops:
    I guess the powdered or chopped variety is available, wonder if they would eat it? Vibes for Bertie donk too:)
     
  3. joellie

    joellie Well-Known Member

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    I have just started my oldie on equine america buteless, I read somewhere that you shouldn't give insulin resistance horse or cushing horses devil claw..I can't remember the reason :oops:
     
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  5. newforest

    newforest Why have grain, when you can have yummy grain

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    Yes I fed the dried and initially offered it out of my hand. She took three handful and almost my hand! Used it for a few months until she went off it.

    I actually want to look into the liquids. I still had to feed about 20g a day of the dried, which is a lot if you have nothing to mix it with because you don't feed.

    Tried Bosweilla and no difference for us in case you had thought of that. Plus it's powered form I got.
     
  6. Trewsers

    Trewsers Well-Known Member

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    Eeek! Chloe has Cushings, oh dear, I had better do some research. She's only been on the devil claw for about six months, prior to that I gave her a half danilon as and when needed. Hmm.
     
  7. newforest

    newforest Why have grain, when you can have yummy grain

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    Just looked at this and you only need 15ml so a months supply?
    Not sure on the not feeding to, I thought it was only to be used short term which we would be.
     
  8. carthorse

    carthorse Well-Known Member

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    Liquids tend to get into the system faster if that's a factor for you Cortrasna.

    I hadn't heard about it being a problem for horses with PPID or EMS, though I suppose if it masks the early signs of a laminitis attack that could be a problem but then bute would do that anyway. I do know it can be a problem for horses with gastric ulcers.

    @Cortrasna I don't know much about donkeys, are they more prone to problems with bute than horses? I only ask because if he's improved significantly on a low dose I'd be tempted to speak to the vet about keeping him on it if he was mine. Herbal remedies can also have side effects, at least with bute the potential problems are well know & the benefits proven.
     
  9. Cortrasna

    Cortrasna Grumpy old nag

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    @carthorse - I don't think they are more prone than horses to issues, it is more me being cautious because as a donkey if I can keep his joints mobile he potentially could have another 15/20 years in him and I felt that would be a big ask if he was constantly on Bute to NOT see some side effects. But you have a very good point - the same might be true of devil's claw too I guess :(

    @joellie - now that has worried me I had Solly on it for several years and he had cushings disease but I have never heard that - more research I think! :O

    @newforest - 3 handfuls! my goodness! Well Bertie fortunately even in the tiniest bit of damped down chaff seems happy to eat anything. I don't feed him either as he tends to weight gain now very easily so restricted grass all summer and just tired old hay on the hoof grass through the winter for him.

    I wish I was someone who could just throw something at them to try it without a second thought....I have to damn well analyse, research and over think the risks etc. as I am so wary of making them ill or worse in any way. Especially now I have an ageing little herd. :)
     
  10. Jessey

    Jessey Well-Known Member

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    I used straight root, never had a problem with them not eating it. Liquid is quicker to act but often liquids are cut with Molasses or similar to make it more palatable so that's worth considering. And devil's claw has some long term use effects worth researching. Bosweilla is meant to be very effective for joint issues and has less side effects than DC.
     
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  11. Cortrasna

    Cortrasna Grumpy old nag

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    Thanks Jessey I shall now go and do some comparison research - a friend suggested trying Bosweilla so might be a good alternative. (y)
     
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  12. Jessey

    Jessey Well-Known Member

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    @MrC uses a cost effective joint mix she was kind enough to share with me when Jess was lame and we were trying all sorts :)
     
  13. Cortrasna

    Cortrasna Grumpy old nag

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    really? I shall toddle off and message her - thanks Jessey
     
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  14. newforest

    newforest Why have grain, when you can have yummy grain

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    I actually wouldn't want any horse or human in anything longterm. It loses its effective and there must be side effects.
    At most I would feed the dc from February through to September and leave her off after. She has been off anything for three months. I realise I am aiming at her seasons though and not general mobility.

    For my arthritic I fed corn oil.
     
    #13 newforest, Jan 12, 2018
    Last edited: Jan 12, 2018
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  15. joellie

    joellie Well-Known Member

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    15mls is for a 500kg horse at maintenance dose , Rummy is under 200kg so I am giving him 5mls in the morning feed and 5mls in his evening feed.
     
  16. newforest

    newforest Why have grain, when you can have yummy grain

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    Sounds like I could feed 12mls then. She is still coming in at 490kg.
     
  17. MrC

    MrC https://m.facebook.com/MrKiasLife/

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  18. Jane&Ziggy

    Jane&Ziggy Learning together!

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    The root is very bitter and strong tasting so it's a good measure of whether a horse needs it that it will eat it.

    The tincture is much more palatable so easier to get down a fussy horse, and yes it can be absorbed more quickly. No good for ad lib administration though, you need the root for that.
     
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  19. newforest

    newforest Why have grain, when you can have yummy grain

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    [QUOTE="Cortrasna, post: 3072250, member:@newforest - 3 handfuls! my goodness! [/QUOTE]

    That was my initial adlib offering to see what she wanted if anything. After that she was slowly introduced etc. I had obviously finally found something she said kerching the human has nailed it!!!!
     
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  20. Lemme

    Lemme Well-Known Member

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    We manage ours arthritis with rapeseed oil and turmeric and both have been fine so far . Use it on both boys for maintenance as well this is the 2nd winter using it and not had any need to touch our bute supply which for acorn is brilliant no mobility issues and he is unrugged.
     
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  21. Cortrasna

    Cortrasna Grumpy old nag

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    Well I have now got MrC's comprehensive list of ingredients and ratio mix's - wow so many hours research already done for me - thanks MrC you are the best - definitely deserve the NR supplement ghuru's crown! :D (y)
     
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